Re: [Lilux-help] Distro is not as important as we all think

Georges Toth wrote: You can use any browser and any WM on any distro. I never said that these things makes up a distro. The opposite is true: People still have to find the right tools *after* having chosen the distro. I even said that different distros can *feel* the same on the users's side if they are configurated the same. If I would replace the distro on my girlfriend's computer and if I would install the same environment (Mozilla, OO, Gnome, etc.) and if I would put the same desktop background, etc. she wouldn't see any difference. Perhaps there would be a speed difference by going from SuSE to Gentoo or Slack, because these distros are not as fat. But from the users perspective (somebody who does not own the root password), it would make little difference. On the administrator's side it would be different. I agree. Then you don't know how people buy cars. Most people will first think about the size. If they have 3 kids, they will not buy a Smart or an Audi TT. After they have found the right size and model, they will choose the engine. Normally every manufacturer has some choice between diesel and several petrol engines. Most people choose at first the environment and then the engine. If the engine consumes not to much and if it is powerful enough, people will take it, no matter what's under the hood. It doesn't happen so often that people must rethink their choice on the level of the size and model because they don't find the right engine. And I do not think of 18 years old who choose the engine first. I know, these are just kids and don't know what's counts. I do not understand what you have written above. What I want to say is the following: If we put together a comparision matrix to compare distros, we will not have finished the job by just comparing the distro. After installing the distro (lets say Gentoo), newcomers still will have many choices to make. We will have to continue to put together matrices which compare WMs, mail clients and so on. I am sure that you agree that Gentoo doesn't force one to use a specific Browser, WM or mail client, right? So the job is not finished by choosing the distro (far from it). I basically agree with you on this topic. But we should all try to get a bit more tolerant. This attitude doesn't help the Linux community at all. If we want that all the banks offer a internet banking solution that runs under Linux, we will need a user base as large as possible, no matter if the users runs SuSE or not!!! The distro just isn't important to this degree. What counts is the fact that the users uses standard compliant browsers and so on. If BGL, CCPL, BCEE and so on runs on SuSE, it will automatically also run on Gentoo. *Please*, never forget this basic fact. On this level, I can only say: Any distro will be a good choice. Yes, I know. At least we agree both on the fact that we do not like some distros at all. You know what: If I would have the choice to work for two employers: one that uses a Windows firewall and one that uses a SuSE firewall, I would take the second one immediately. I could replace the SuSE firewall overnight to a Gentoo firewall by telling the boss that the firewall needed an important security update recently. Same with a SuSE webserver that uses PHP or perls scripts. But what would you do with an IIS server which uses ASP programs? Then you would have to change the *envionment*, which would have a much larger impact to the users than just changing the OS. What I already told before: changing a database server is a breeze as long you change the OS and *not* the database product. For the users (not the administrators), the OS and the distro really is not important. I had no argument *against* you. I just told why I dont't like pure network based installs. I thought Gentoo was mainly network based, because I didn't find ISOs for Gentoo with contain a complete distrobution that contains all the common tools and apps. I saw only the choice between stage 1, stage 2 and stage 3 installs which all needed a network connection at some point. Wishful thinking. There already are community projects which have been given up. This wasn't against Gentoo (see below). It's far more plausible than you think. Look at OSS cryptographic tools which you couldn't be downloaded from US servers. You know why OpenBSD is based in Canada? OpenBSD was the first major free BSD (the other are FreeBSD and NetBSD) which contained cryptographic software. This was only possibly because Theo Raadt lives in Canada! I am an AIX administrator. IBM has a freeware site for AIX. There you find AIX packages for almost everything (Apache, KDE, fetchmail, bash, Gnome, gcc and so on). Guess what: There is *no* SSH package because I use an european IP address to access their site! Hopefully not. If nobody knows that I am using the software package at home, nobody will come except burglars!!! Yes you are right. But I would certainly not have a problem with this (no bad conscience). All I want is to access my *own* data. I would still manage to have a good sleep!!! I didn't attack Gentoo anymore. See above. Sure. The whole GNU project got started in 1984. But people had to install a non free OS like Solaris to use gcc and bash. Hurd didn't get ready on time. Linus Torvalds used bash and gcc on Minix. Minix was too limited (no virtual memory and so on), but Linus still liked his environment (bash, gcc and uemacs) so much that he wrote a new kernel for it. Later (still 1992) Orest Zborowski wanted to use X Window at home. He heard about Linux. He adaped Linux to be compatible with the X Window system and not the other way round! This is exactly what I meant. The environment was there first. The OS followed. In the early nineties, people patched and extended the Linux kernel, because they wanted to run their app. The whole Linux networking API (Berkeley Sockets) was created before Linux even had a TCP/IP stack or network drivers. It was done because X Window needed it to run locally (over localhost and Unix Sockets). Type "Orest Zborowski" under google and read. The apps fueled the Linux development in the early stage and not the other way round. Patrick Kaell